also available at www.SethSpeaks.net –
The Twins announced this afternoon that they have added Three players to their 40 man roster. But before I get to that, the Twins decided to remove RHP David Bromberg from their 4r0 man roster, which I have to admit disappoints me to no end. I just don’t understand it. A year ago, he was clearly someone who had to be added to the 40 man roster. Now, he is removed after a season in which he broke a bone in his forearm. It’s not an elbow or shoulder injury. It was a fluke injury. He worked like crazy to get back and is in terrific shape, ready for a second go-‘round. And he was removed from the 40 man roster. This is crazy. Then again, he cleared waivers, so he was outrighted to Rochester. I would hope (and assume) that he would get an invite to big league spring training again.
But on to those that we can be happy for today, those added to the 40 man roster. They are:
- RHP Carlos Gutierrez
- OF Oswaldo Arcia
- LHP Tyler Robertson
Going by my list yesterday, I ranked Arcia the easiest choice, followed by Gutierrez. I think ranked Tom Stuifbergen #3, Angel Morales #4 and Manuel Soliman #5 before Tyler Robertson at #6. I’ve got to admit, I am definitely surprised by the moves today, although as I pointed out, there were really only two easy choices, and they were both added.
I’m still shocked about the Bromberg news. I can’t say shocked because I had heard rumblings about it being possible awhile back. But I thought the idea was so crazy that it wouldn’t really happen.
I’m curious your thoughts and reaction. Feel free to comment.
SethSpeaks.net 
Seth, what’s the problem? As you point out, Bromberg cleared waivers and is in Rochester. If they need him later on, they’ll just juggle some things around.
And that’s why I’m not the GM… I’m surprised by the move, but since he cleared waivers, I guess no harm, no foul?
Could it be that the adjustments to the 40-man roster at this time of year are about more that identifying the guys you think can and you might want to make the major league roster eventually? Can Bromberg’s passing through waivers be seen as a “win” for the Twins because they guessed correctly that they would not have to use a 40-man slot to keep him in their system? If every organization has more than 40 players they need to and want to protect doesn’t it then become a guessing game as to which ones are likely to be of the most interest to other organizations?
You’re absolutely right… it could be all about timing. Like I said above, obviously they knew what they were doing and got him through.
I am worried about the moves. Is there a decent chance that stuif or Morales gets picked up and sticks for the year? That would stink. Is bromberg eligible for the draft? If not why? I hope he stays and can make it to the bigs this year!
You know, it’s funny. I’ve been trying to make guesses on what they’ll do with the 40 man roster, and a few years ago, I kind of quit pretending to know. Guys I thought made complete sense to go didn’t. Generally the Twins have been right, and part of that is because not many players get selected in the Rule 5. And, frankly, now that teams have an extra year to evaluate players before needing to add them, there are less surprises.
I am surprised about Morales. I am even more surprised there were no real surprise additions. I think the move with Bromberg says you are right about Manship still having some value.
There wasn’t a shocking guy that was added that we all completely missed, like with Estarlin de Los Santos a few years ago and other examples. I think those surprise names are why I kind of thought Soliman was an option.
Morales hasn’t proven to be anything more than a run-of-the-mill prospect; I will be shocked if he’s taken in Rule 5. The only question mark is Stuifbergen; he might be lost. But overall, I can’t quibble with the FO’s 40-man decisions.
TT did a great job yesterday explaining why it is possible that Morales could be taken. He’s a Top 10 Twins prospect in my mind and should have a big year in 2012, I think.
I think Stuif is a quesiton… he could get taken.
I would rather have Bloomberg on the 40 roster then Maloney or Gray
Me too, probably, but I don’t really know enough about Maloney or Gray to be too negative about them yet either.
The Twins had to grab Maloney and Gray and keep them on the 40-man. At least for the moment. They couldn’ve been claimed by anotehr team, which the Twins obviously thought would happen (I think the Twins get early claims on everyone, right). But they were also claimed early enough that they could be bubble players to go if the Twins need free aent space (remember, the Twins still need to find an outfielder, a closer, and would be nice to add a starter, and maybe space for another prospect pickup). Running Bromberg thru waivers was a chance, but everyone else today was adding players. He cleared. Teams can think about him for the Rule 5 if they have an open spot, and suspect he might be claimed. These last minute releases soemtimes are the Rule 5 gems.
“These last minute releases soemtimes are the Rule 5 gems.”
I don’t think anyone has ever been taken in the Rule 5 draft immediately after passing through waivers. A team has to pay $25,000 for a waiver claim and $50,000 for a rule 5 player. And they don’t need to provide a place on the 25 man roster to keep the waiver player. I think Bromberg is safe.
What is it with regard to the “magic” of a 40 man roster anyway? When factors are considered such as: the length of time it takes a player to advance through a minor league system, the cost of operating minor league teams, the fact that players are drafted after high school, international players are signed under age 18, injuries that can put a player on the shelf for a year or more, the percentage of minor league players that actually make it to the major leagues, etc., the ability to “protect” 15 players in addition to those 25 who play in the majors hardly seems adequate. With the emphasis on developing talent through a team’s organization, why is it that the “40” man roster isn’t a 45 man roster or a 50 man roster? Shouldn’t the owners and GM’s be pushing to increase this limit?
The point is to prevent teams, like the Yankees, from stock-piling players just to keep them away from other teams. From the players union perspective its to make sure a player who would be on one team’s major league roster isn’t permanently assigned to AAA by another team. In the last labor agreement, they did add an extra year to the time it took for players to be eligible for the rule 5 draft.
A few things of note:
– There is a major league and minor league portion of the rule 5 draft. Rules are pretty much the same. In the major league portion, a player drafted has to spend the full season in the majors (25 man roster). In the minor league portion, a player has to play the full season at a level higher than he played before. I will probably blog about it this weekend or early next week, but that’s the reason that players like Deibinson Romero and De Los Santos were protected in past years. The minor league part. There are several liabilities here for the Twins, but all it would take for a team to draft and keep Angel Morales (for example) is to keep him at AA for a full season. Easy. Pedro Guerra is another huge liability. A team has to keep him at high A for a season. Danny Rams too. There will be an organization that will give him a full time AA job.
– As far as the major league portion goes, I think that Cole DeVries will be gone. Slama probably too. And at this point, I would argue that they are better than both of the last 2 Smith signings and a couple more players on the 40-man roster. Esp. DeVries.
Thrylos, I don’t want this to sound bad, but it’s wrong. The Twins have their 40 man major league roster, then they have (I think) 40 man AAA roster and a 40 man AA roster. Although Morales is not on the big league 40 man, it is highly likely that he is on the AAA roster, as would the minor league signings, Rams, Pedro Guerra, etc. (we don’t have access to the minor league rosters, so I’m just assuming those guys would be protected). But Deibinson Romero and E DL Santos were added to the big league roster for the same reason Arcia was now, because the Twins believe that a team might take them and stash them on the big league roster. Nothing to do with the minor league Rule 5s.
Guys like Arcia and Gutierrez would have had to be on the AAA roster last year or they could have been selected. Two years ago, they would have been protected on the AA roster. Also, if a player is selected in the minor elague portion of the Rule 5, they are gone regardless of where they play for the other team. Last year in the AAA version, the Twins lost Jean Mijares and Eliecer Cardenas in the minor league portion. They were gone.
As TT pointed out the other day, Slama could have been had by any team when he was put on waivers for less than the Rule 5 amount. I wrote that I would think Slama is a guy who should be taken, but who knows.
Seth –
Players don’t have to be protected for any portion of the rule 5 draft until they are eligible. So Arcia and Gutierrez would not have to have been on the AAA roster last year.
One thing we haven’t mentioned, I think the Twins get the second choice in the rule 5 draft this year. I guess I would be a bit surprised if they don’t take anyone which means having a roster spot open.
” In the minor league portion, a player has to play the full season at a level higher than he played before.”
No, they don’t. They can be assigned to any level the team chooses. Players taken in the minor league portion belong to the drafting team.
There are rosters for each level of the minor leagues. Players put on the AAA roster are exempt from the minor league draft. Players on the AA roster are exempt from the AA minor league draft.
So a player like Morales will likely be protected on the AAA roster. LIkewise players like Bromberg, Devries and Slama. Its very rare for a major league quality player to be taken in the minor league draft. Brian Buscher was one of those and it surprised everyone.
Here is a link that supports some of Thrylos version.
http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/events/rule5draft.jsp
It contradicts what I have read before, but its on the official minor league site so …
TT – Thanks for sharing that link. I’ve never seen that and the only players I follow are former Twins… and I know they didn’t play at AAA last year (Cardenas, Mjiares, etc. They were in A-ball)… I’m confused.
Seth –
I am a bit confused also. The information is contrary to how I have seen it described in the past. But its possible they changed the rules. I am not sure the minor league draft needs to be part of the major league collective bargaining agreement with the players.
I did post a clarification of the rules over here: bit.ly/tlNrzn
It is complicated, but the gist is, if you are not on a particular roster (40, AAA, AA) you qualify for that portion of the draft and have to stay on that roster for the full season. Unlike the 25 man roster, which means a MLB part rule 5 pick has to be in the majors the full season, in the minors someone can be on the AAA or AA reserve roster and play at any level. So, realistically to protect someone from the AA and AAA part they need to add him to the AAA reserve roster. With all these MiLB FA signings, plus the remaining players there, there is not enough room to protect all the good players, so there are risks.
Btw, the fact that Brian Buscher played in the majors, does not make him a major league quality player 🙂
Well, won”t mattr if a player is taken, the Twins brss made their choice and probably better understanding of the rules and better foresight of the players outrighted, left off or what ever. If a player is chosenin major league phase, they must stick. Twins are at 39 players by roster count, so presume a free agent spot or someone they wanto draft…
minor league phase, they probably will have a roster raid from people available. Not much money, but they protect who they feel to proetect.
Win Twins!
I think it means that Mijares and Cardenas were simply unprotected at any level (it’s 38 at AAA and 37 at AA). If they weren’t protected, they can play at any level. Surely Morales is protected at AA or AAA. Same with Guerra. It would be nice to know who is totally unprotected, though.
Shane –
Even if they were unprotected, they were take in the draft and would have to be kept at the higher level if the link I provided is correct. Its possible someone just got it wrong when they were putting together content for the minor league site. The rules for the minor league rule 5 draft are pretty arcane.
Looking back at the recent history of the draft, it’s tough for an OF to stick. It would be especially hard for an OF, who hasn’t hit past A-ball to stick. Morales’s contribution would probably be limited to PRing, which would limit how a team contructs their 25-man roster. With that being said, if I’m a team that lacks OF talent in the minors, I take a chance on Morales, figuring the Twins have OF depth and might be willing to make a deal. Morales hasn’t moved up as quickly as the Twins anticipated, and by the time he makes it to the Bigs, he’ll probably be out of options and buried by Revere, Hicks and Arcia (at least we hope so!).
I am concerned about potentially losing Soliman. Soliman is just staring to figure out how to be a pitcher and he has a pretty live arm. It’s hard to ignore these types of guys (i.e. Santos and Jansen) especially in a situation where there is little-risk in taking them.
Stuif and Albers have both had success in the off-season and Albers, a lefty, might be a guy you take a shot on and make a LOOGY. Stuif would have to be a long-relief, low-leverage guy, whose inconsistancies might scare teams off.
No matter how you look at it, you have to believe the Twins have more guys that “could” be drafted this year than the previous handful of years, so that’s saying something about their farm system right? Ok, maybe that’s a stretch…
I think its clear Bromberg looked like a shadow of his former self when he tried to come back at the end of this past season, from that horrific injury.
It is a shame that liner had to rock him so hard, when for the longest time, he looked like he was JUST what the Twins needed, a power FB pitcher who could sit very well in Target Field.
I am dissapointed we will likely be unaiblae to keep him around, but I’m not shocked by the move.
Surprised. Yes. Bromberg was one of my bigger “hopefuls”. The last two years have spelled a stagnancy that I didn’t expect either.
When Ryan spoke of Bromberg at a conference one time, he was pretty direct… and with DB standing right there, next to Ryan. Only reason I mention it, is because Ryan likes to be inspirational and motivational. Wonder if this is a loud and clear message to DB to get up for this season.
Well, in 3 weeks we will see the results of the overall minor league draft.. Whats hjappens from major league to the minors. Twins would have 2nd pick I am guessing based on records..
Win Twins!
Has there been a decision on who will be the new manager of AAA-Rochester?
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